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[Acknowledged by Flickr Staff] Structural Underreporting in Bell Icon

Ger Bosma says:

Every morning when I first check Flickr, the bell icon shows a lot fewer new notifications than are actually the case.

I usually click on the bell icon from the main/photo stream page.
This morning it said there were 2 new ones, but when the listing appeared, there were 9 that I had not seen yet - all highlighted in light blue obviously.

NB This happens every day. I've reported this before.
Posted at 10:30PM, 25 November 2021 PST ( permalink | reply )
katie_ko (staff) edited this topic 2 months ago.

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conall.. says:

Ger Bosma: i have noticed that too. For me it is not that big a deal because i am looking at what comes up in the notifications.

The more annoying issue issue for me is still the one when you get the notification "user X has commented on 4 of your pictures" but it doesnt show the comments. Requires a click on each of the pictures & scroll down to the bottom of the comments on read each one and having to return to Notifications between each one to get to the next picture. Alternate is to do it via 2 tabs or windows but this is messy.

It would be good to get an update on progress on this. Previously staff said they were aware of the problem and working on it but thought it wouldnt be fixed until after the RA switch off.

I'm trying to get used to Notifications and take a positive approach but this one problem is so irritating and will feel worse when we loose RA in a few weeks. Seems odd that to me that such a clunky bug is engineered in to notifications. Any basic testing on users or looking at how people use Flickr should surely have shown this as an issue.
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink | reply )

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Ealonian56 says:

Ger Bosma:

I just wonder if some groups might have been muted, possibly meaning that you might miss invites?
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink | reply )

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Ger Bosma says:

conall..:

For me it is not that big a deal because i am looking at what comes up in the notifications.


Yes, but considering the bell icon is basically click bait (as soon as it lights up - *dopamine shot* - something happened LOL ) it also entails that structural underreporting will mean you are less likely to check when precious little appears to have happened in the last 10 hours or so.

If there are 67 new notifications, one will surely click.

AFAIAC the new notification structure is set up only to create more clicks, because all other relevant info is indeed missing: full content of all new comments, totals of faves, views and comments.

It'll mean lots of extra (pointless) clicking.

If implemented so poorly, I doubt anyone finds it of much use.
I for one still exclusively use www.flickr.com/activity


Ealonian56:

I do not do groups any more, haven't done so for years.
The very few that still occasionally generated topic updates were indeed muted manually. I've not seen one in months.

NB I admin one group, but those end up in the admin tab, just one very active thread and a few others a few times per week.
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink | reply )

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G_E_R_D says:

Ger Bosma:

the bell icon shows a lot fewer new notifications than are actually the case.

I notice that too, almost every day.
But today, for the first time, it's the other way around:
The bell icon showed a pink 6, but when I clicked the bell, there were only 5 new notifications.
I think this whole new notifications system is totally broken.
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink | reply )

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Ger Bosma says:

Today again the bell icon shows just 1 new notification.
That would be odd, considering I had an image explored.
In fact there were 15 different new notifications highlighted in light blue in the notification tab (NB the number shown there on top said none).

There was one in the Groups you admin-tab, correctly showing a 1.
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink | reply )

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my.travels says:

I noticed through RA page that a user faved some of my photos. Even about 10 minutes after this, the notifications was not showing these faves. So, I wrote to Flickr Support. Now, I will wait for their response.
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink | reply )

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Ger Bosma says:

my.travels:

Do not get your hopes up high. RA is planned to be scrapped completely.

It has been a mess, even without the pagination replaced by 'next' - when clicked only delivering scrambled and curtailed rehash of the same activity.

I'd be interested to see how many people (like myself) only use recent activity still, instead of the new NOTifu*kation-page. The majority I'd say. (-;

Clearly most users see little use for this ill-fated redesign.
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink | reply )

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Images George Rex says:

Please Flickr folks, don't remove Recent Activity until the Notifications functionality works properly. Ideally, don't remove Recent Activity at all :)
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink | reply )

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mcnod says:

Ger Bosma:

I'd be interested to see how many people (like myself) only use recent activity still. The majority I'd say.
Clearly most users see little use for this ill-fated redesign.

Speculation on your part. Of course, we would be happy to examine your sources for this conclusion.
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink | reply )

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conall.. says:

mcnod: speculation yes, but my feeling also is that it is likely to be the case that a large proportion of users will keep using RA right until it disappears.

If we are doing a straw poll. I am using both daily. Would prefer to be able to use RA but realise that that is not going to be possible soon, I am weaning myself onto new notifications and getting to tolerate it so that mid December wont be such a cliff edge.

I wish RA would stay in parallel but that really isnt going to happen,
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink | reply )

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Ger Bosma says:

mcnod:

we would be happy


'We?' Could that really be the self-appointed spokesperson for the silent,
level-headed majority chiming in once more?

Anyway: the rest of the world is also... happy you (lot) are happy.

#cheerup!
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink | reply )

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Viejito says:

When the bell notifications appeared, I started using them immediately, though I am far from an early adopter. I noticed some advantages to the new system but also kept using Recent Activity, because it had features not currently present in the new system. The way Recent Activity has been broken lately, I will not shed a tear when it goes.

I will not speculate as to whether the breaking of Recent Activity was intentional, to ease the pain of its disappearance...😎
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink | reply )

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my.travels says:

Ger Bosma:

"Do not get your hopes up high. RA is planned to be scrapped completely.

It has been a mess, even without the pagination replaced by 'next' - when clicked only delivering scrambled and curtailed rehash of the same activity.

I'd be interested to see how many people (like myself) only use recent activity still, instead of the new NOTifu*kation-page. The majority I'd say. (-;

Clearly most users see little use for this ill-fated redesign."

I feel you are right. However, there are some users here who defend this change and they state RA defenders are minority. I would not mention their names here, but from their arguments I understand they have more insider info than us. They also get very angry if someone comments against notifications. Maybe, they are right and they are majority. Who knows?

We will see where we are heading within a year.
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink | reply )

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mag3737 says:

For the record:

1. I do not like Notifications. I agree with nearly all of the objective and constructive criticisms that they are buggy, slow, and feature-broken by comparison with RA.

2. It's possible that the majority are still using RA, but if this is true, the reason is pure inertia or possibly innocent obliviousness, not stubborn and defiant refusal. I believe that anyone who has given it some rational thought will see that the sensible course is to heed the far-advanced warning and move on.

3. It's completely absurd for any of us here in the Help Forum -- a minuscule if noisy 0.001% slice of life on Flickr -- to make baseless claims about what any "majority" of Flickr members think or do.

4. I think it's time for Flickr to close this and the rest of the current round of repetitive and pointless threads about this subject that keep popping up like whack-a-moles. The only value in this particular thread is the OP.
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink | reply )

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Ger Bosma says:

mag3737:

There is no need for you or anyone else here to make covert insinuations about anyone or any topic needing to be silenced in the HF.

If you take umbrage, please move on and avoid the - clearly off-topic - sort of musings that in others you deem uncalled for.
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink | reply )

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Ger Bosma says:

The simple fact is this: before flickr rolled out the new not. page, nearly everyone had been using recent activity for years.

I doubt anyone using flickr seriously could have kept track of what happened without it.There was simply no alternative.

After the bell icon was launched (and later tweaked somewhat to contain more useful info), some people may have used RA less, but I doubt very much that anyone could glean all info about activity from the bell icon.

Yes, in the last 2 months a part of the community may have moved on, realizing the inevitability of the changes.

Some may indeed like it, but as long as much relevant info is not found there, I see no use for it.
Plenty of promises made by staff about improving things have not materialized. It's buggy, slow, lacks crucial info and has lots of arbitrary lumping together of dissimilar content.

In the meantime RA has been crippled, mangled and slowed down.
If not intentionally, it's probably lowest on the priority list of flickr engineers.

The reason threads like this fester in the HF is that staff is conspicously absent and never follows up on anything, despite countless promises to do so.

Communication is key in getting the community to embrace changes.
Objective improvements and catering to valid requests and remedying bugs is another.

My OP is valid. It happens every single day. The notion that it would only befall me is preposterous. It's a valid bug report about a cornerstone of the new notifaction system that we are forced to use soon.

So I'll say it again:
The bell icon is very slow to open. (15 t0 20 seconds)
The numbers mentioned there are often wrong, and often underreporting. That should be monitored and fixed.
Info found in RA is regularly missing under the bell icon.

If things are fixed, you can lock this thread (or delete it for all I care.)
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink | reply )

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mag3737 says:

Ger Bosma:

There is no need for you or anyone else here to make covert insinuations about anyone or any topic needing to be silenced in the HF.

I would not say I was "covert".

Ger Bosma:
If not intentionally, it's probably lowest on the priority list of flickr engineers.

It's not even ON the list. They have said so. There is no need to qualify with "probably".

Ger Bosma:
My OP is valid.

I agreed with that, too. Did you even read my entire posting? I read all of yours.

Ger Bosma:
The bell icon is very slow to open. (15 t0 20 seconds)

Same for me. We are lucky. Some people here report 90 or more.
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink | reply )

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Ger Bosma says:

Another update: still every morning when I get back on Flickr the same underreporting going on.

-Bell Icon says 2 new notifications.
-Both tabs show 1 new event.

In fact in the notifications tab there are 8 new ones, that I have not seen before - as usual still highlighted in blue.

It's not been accurate once.

Why would this only happen on my account?
Nonsense: it'll probably affect every user.

So why not look into it and fix it, instead of leaving all those annoying bugs and shortcomings persist without even trying to come up with any sort of excuse?


Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink | reply )

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ernstkers says:

Another frequent failure: pending items often don't show in the Admin tab. It's kind of random, but I have the impression that groups with less contributions are more often victim of this.

OK, it's a kind of activity that was never in RA, you had to go to the groups page to monitor for new admissions because nowhere else was an overview. The notifications would have been an improvement. But it appears you still have to go to the groups page to monitor for new admissions because the notifications are not reliable.
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink | reply )

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Ger Bosma says:

Another update: still every morning when I get back on Flickr the same underreporting going on.

-Bell Icon says 3 new notifications.
-Notification tab says 1 new event; admin tab says 2 (the latter being correct)

But in the notifications tab there are in fact 11 new ones, that I have not seen before - as usual still highlighted in blue.

It's not been accurate once.
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink | reply )

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Ger Bosma says:

Bell icon for the first time ever (?) after 10 hours of absence showing ZERO new notifcations.

Clicking it, revealed in fact 6 new notifactions.


NB @Staff, routinely ignoring this thread only means this site-wide bug persists. Please acknowledge and/or fix.
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink | reply )

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Ger Bosma says:

1 the number on the bell after 10 hours of absence
4 in fact under the tab notifications (header says 0)
1 under admin tab (header says 1)


BUGGY!
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink | reply )

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Flickr Staff

R L Catlow says:

Ger Bosma:

Sending over an email to grab some examples.

Thanks!
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink | reply )

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Ger Bosma says:

Thanks for reaching out.
I mailed you back.

Here for the benefit of others

Yesterday morning, after being offline for 10+ hours

When loading the main page,the bell icon shows 2 new notifications.


flic1


Clicking it will open the notification part of the dual tab system.
Note that the bell icon number will instantly adjust itself, to now only show the number of new notifications
that still remain in the Admin Tab. (1)

flic2

You can see that there are a lot more new notifications in fact, all shown in lightblue.
Here 6 of 8 are visible.

So the bell icon should have said 9, not 2.

This is the same every day. The initial bell total is always underreporting and has not been right once for weeks.
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink | reply )

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Ger Bosma says:

Today bell shows 1.

In FACT 17 new notifications in light blue that I had not seen previously.
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink | reply )

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Flickr Staff

katie_ko says:

Ger Bosma:

Thanks for the specific examples!

At this time I've created a bug report to let our engineers know of these reports. If more folks would like to send over their specific examples/screenshots of this behavior (either here or over email), I'm happy to add to the report.

www.flickrhelp.com/hc/en-us/requests/new
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink | reply )
R L Catlow (staff) edited this topic 2 months ago.

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mag3737 says:

katie_ko:

Big? or bug? Seems like both would work. :-)
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink | reply )

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Ger Bosma says:

Not fixed.
Bell says 2, should have said 9..............................................
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink | reply )

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Ger Bosma says:

UPDATE: this may be (partly) browser-specific.

On my Samsung smartphone with samsung Internet, I noticed a number 5 on the bell icon.
On my PC with Firefox 94.0.2. a 1 .

(Obviously I had not clicked on it in the mean time.)

Clicking on it indeed turned up 5 new messages.

So it may partly be FF-related, but that of course does not mean it does not affect many users, and possibly including other popular browsers.


NB I do not use adblock on any elements on flickr photo pages.
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink | reply )
Ger Bosma edited this topic 2 months ago.

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mcnod says:

Ger Bosma:

Firefox 94.0.2

Updating your FF to the latest version would be a good idea ...
Posted 2 months ago. ( permalink | reply )

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